I/W: 2024 H: 2020 General, Theory, Spirit
Introduction
This post will look at the interrelation of Jesus and God. Jesus as God’s son and incarnation. What the Gospel says about it. What Jesus says about it. What the Hebrew Bible says about God having children and incarnating.
Additionally, at the end of the post I’ll give my take on if it would be in God’s character to do this based on my experience dealing with him. I’ll also get into more about what Jesus is like based on my conversing with him.
This is in reference to the God of Israel. of Jesus’ ancestors. The history of his people, the Jewish people, dealing with their God is recorded in the Hebrew Bible, Genesis to Malachi. Jesus’ life is recorded in the Gospel, books: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
Jesus as God’s Son
Can God Have a Human Child?
What God having a son looks like in this instance is another species, God, impregnating a female human. He’s of another species which is the archetype of humanity (Ge 1:26). Humans creating a child is different than a human and God creating one. In this case, it involves “the holy spirit” visiting a woman and causing the process of human creation to begin inside her from one of her eggs. A human female egg is about 0.1mm thick. So God would have to influence something tiny to make this possible. Based on his recorded history, he’s influenced matter many times to set the stage of this being possible for him to do. Two examples are parting the Red Sea (Ex 14:21) and changing water to blood (Ex 7:17-20). According to his own question “is anything too hard for the Lord?” it appears this would be an easy task for him (Ge 18:13-14).
Other Occurrences of God Having Children
This isn’t the first time he’s aided in the birth of a human child. The first time was with Abraham’s wife Sarah who was past menopause and infertile, for the birth of Isaac (Ge 21:1-3). He did it again with the birth of Samuel (1 Sa 1:5-6; 1:19-20; 2:21). And it appears he does it again for the birth of Jesus’ cousin John who’s six months older than him (Luke 1:5-7, 1:36-37). Additionally, God refers to all of the people descended from Israel (Jacob) as his firstborn son (Ex 4:22). So God aiding in the conception of a human child in a woman’s womb and having a human child (children) is no new idea with him.
God, Abraham, and Sarah’s Child Isaac, Israel, and God’s Plan of What’s to Come
What the Gospel Says about Jesus Being God’s Son
What makes the conception of Jesus unique is the absence of a human father. The other instances involve a human father, human mother, and God, while Jesus’ is just a human mother and God.
The text tells of an angel visiting Jesus’ to be mother, Mary, and telling her she will bear a child. She questions how that’s possible given she’s a virgin. The angel answers her “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.” (Luke 1:26-38). Mary is betrothed to a man named Joseph who learns she’s become pregnant before they’ve married, so he intends to divorce her, of the impression she’s conceived with another man before their marriage. The angel of the Lord appears to him in a dream and tells him “do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” Joseph marries her and when she bears the child he names him Jesus which the angel instructed (Mat 1:18-25).
Fast forward to Jesus’ adulthood, on two separate occasions, a voice described to come from heaven proclaims Jesus as their son (Mark 1:11; 9:7 Mat 3:17; 17:5 Luke 3:22; 9:35). The first time is right after Jesus is baptized and the second is when he speaks to Moses and Elijah. This voice appears to be witnessed by a minimum of one person who isn’t Jesus.
Did Jesus View Himself as God’s Son?
There are many instances where Jesus refers to “the father” and/or “the son” with varying ambiguity (John 3:35-36; 5:19-27; 6:40; 8:35-36; 14:13; 17:1). He also refers to “the son of God” on occasions and gives a specific attributed characteristic (John 5:25; 11:4). He says “an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live” (John 5:25). Leter, in reference to the illness of a man named Lazarus, he says, “This illness does not lead to death. It is for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it” (John 11:4). Lazarus dies, and after four days Jesus visits his tomb and “cried (cries) out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out.”” (John 11:43). Lazarus comes out alive after hearing Jesus’ voice. Therefore, Jesus has fulfilled the “son of God” attributed characteristic he’s given that “the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live” (John 5:25). Looking at this, one can assume with reasonable certainty, Jesus views himself as God’s son.
Jesus as God
The idea of a human being God’s son is existent in the Hebrew Bible. The idea of God being a human is less existent. There are several things Jesus says that gives the impression he views himself as God. Opposingly, there are several things he says that give the impression he doesn’t view himself as God. This and more will be gone over in this section.
What the Hebrew Bible Says about God as a Human
There are two references in Isaiah that are possible candidates to be interpreted as God planning to incarnate as a human in the future.
One is about a baby to be born who will be named Immanuel, meaning God is with us (Isa 7:14). The woman to bear the child is identified as a virgin in most English translations but can also mean lass. The context is God speaking through Isaiah to King Ahaz of Judah about not worrying about an overtaking of Judah from close plotting territories. It appears the baby’s birth is to act as a sign to Ahaz that God is looking over Judah, the child literally being named Immanuel and additionally having a symbolic complementary meaning, God is with us. There’s a time frame of 65 years set from the time of God telling him the sign of the child’s birth to come (Isa 7:8). It goes on to add an additional time frame from when the child is born, saying “before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted.” (Isa 7:16). It appears “the land” is referring to the references of territories earlier in the chapter (Isa 7:1-9). There isn’t any record of God incarnating within that 65 year period. It also doesn’t follow up on the child being born which leaves a shred of mystery. Mat 1:22-23 specifies this Isaiah verse as referring to Jesus which is likely the reason for using “virgin” in most English translations.
The next reference is one referring to an individual to come who will have the title “Mighty God” among others (Isa 9:6). The word “god” is a title and not a name. It can refer to any being or any thing. Even the God of Israel uses the term to refer to other beings or things (Ex 20:3; 34:14). The title can refer to the God of Israel, but also to any being or any thing. It takes on the meaning of power and strength and can just be referring to a quality of the person. The chapter goes on to express that “The zeal of the Lord of hosts will do this.” (Isa 9:7).
These references are open to discussion. But I think prior to Jesus, the idea of God incarnating as a human was relatively foreign to the Israelites. On the flip side, there are references to God possibly being in the form of a humanlike ET visiting humans.
Why Not Forewarn of Incarnating?
God would inspire and direct prophets of Israel to address the Israelites, and the world, of events to come in the future. If God was planning to incarnate as a human then why not forewarn everyone of it? Give a very clear specification, or specifications, so the person can be easily recognized when they’ve incarnated. The simplest answer would be he doesn’t want to incarnate and has no intention to.
It could also be possible that he doesn’t want to play that card. He wants to be treated as any other ordinary person to get the full experience of what it’s like to be human. It could be some kind of a test to see how people handle it, a method of challenging humanity. Not forewarning its happening could be as simple as meaning he doesn’t want people to know about it for his own reasons. Concealment is recurrent throughout his history.
Occurrences That Jesus Views Himself as God
Jesus says several things that give the impression he views himself as God. Jesus said “the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” (John 10:38). Likewise, “I am in the Father and the Father is in me” (John 14:11). He said “before Abraham was, I am.” (John 8:58). This isn’t as direct but gives a similar impression because God was around before Abraham and all of humanity, according to the Bible (Ge 1:1). Additionally, God attributes the quality “I am” to himself when he tells Moses his identity (Ex 3:14). More evidently he says, “Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.” (John 14:9). Also worth mentioning he says, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” (Mat 28:18). And amongst the clearest indicators he says, “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30).
He says more that shows his views on oneness and being within one another go beyond him and God, “In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.” (John 14:20). “Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.” (John 17:11). “that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us … that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one”(John 17:20-23).
Occurrences Jesus Doesn’t View Himself as God
There are also several occurrences where he appears to view himself as separate from God. Many times he prays to God (ex. John 17:1-26). He refers to the father as having sent him (John 14:24). He expresses he’s heard from he who sent him (John 8:26). The father has given him a commandment of what to speak (John 12:49-50). He also says he’s going to the father who’s greater than him (John 14:28).
Jesus as God Compared with Ezekiel’s Vision of Four Creatures
The four creatures Ezekiel saw represent the separation and unity of a soul’s intelligent existence in all its forms and capacities throughout the universe, the four realms. United as one while also separate. The God of Israel is a cherub so he would be of this creature. Jesus is a human so he’d be of this creature too. God is the cherub form, the cherub face, and the ox face of the creature (in realm 4) and Jesus is the human face on the cherub form (in realm 1) if he’s God’s human avatar. I explain the four creatures more in the below linked post:
How the Realms Work Together: Ezekiel’s Vision of Four Creatures
When God booted Adam and Eve from Eden, they were separated from their full existence. As a result, their descendants, humanity, are pretty much oblivious to their full existence (Ge 3:24).
The Four Rivers in Genesis Are the Four Realms
Is the Bible’s Dating of the Start of Humanity Accurate?
In the relationship of a human to their cherub, if Jesus said he is God, it wouldn’t be the best depiction. It would be a partial truth. He’s rather a part of God. God would be the archetype of his existence, his source, which is why God would be greater than him (John 14:28). God is the original form and Jesus is an extension and a part of that original form. If Jesus didn’t exist, God would still exist. If God didn’t exist, Jesus would not exist. Jesus is reliant on God in their relationship which is why he approaches the topic like he does. He’s like a branch on a tree. It’s united as one with the tree but still its own unique part. It relies on the trunk of the tree to exist.
In terms of determining if Jesus is God’s incarnation, what it really comes down to is if Jesus and God have the same soul. The part of a being that exists everlasting and unifies all its existence.
Further Insight
The Difficulty in Verifying This
Any person can claim for themselves or someone else that they’re God or God’s son. The difficulty in assessing this is the lack of answer to the question of what is God? Who a human’s child is can be assessed through DNA, a birth certificate, and other appropriate methods. With God, the resources and knowledge aren’t there to assess this with objective certainty.
In Jesus’ case, there are indicators that can help to assess this. Such as, he was an Israelite, of the people who God was working with. Another is he performed many miracles, and performing miracles is a trait God has.
Another issue in assessing this is Jesus only walked the earth 30 some years. His ministry was only about three years, which the bulk of the text about him surrounds. With a claim of God referring to Israel being his firstborn son (Ex 4:22), originating from Isaac’s birth, you get a much wider picture to evaluate if it’s true. Some 3500 years from the time of this writing.
God’s Blessing Through Israel Proven True: A People and Ideology of Great Positive Impact
Would God Have a Son and Incarnate?
Based on my time dealing with the God of Israel, I can say unequivocally without a doubt he would have a child and/or incarnate in form an infinite times over. Meaning, he would do this as many times and in as many forms as he wants. He has a humble nature to him which is unparalleled to the likes of which I’ve never seen, and it’s a huge breath of fresh air. Regardless of being a different species with different qualities than humans, he’s very normal. I can totally see him doing this.
On that note, I think the idea of him incarnating as a human is genius. It makes him much more relatable to people. I can say Jesus is naturally more relateable than God. God is relateable too but there are differences. Likewise, where God dwells in a temple that’s shrouded in mystery, being a human who walks around helps to overcome that. It’s a great method of connecting with people. Additionally, experiencing a human life like everyone else does, including injustice, is an effective method of conveying to humans that God understands them and is like them.
More about What Jesus Is Like
There’s more I want to document about what Jesus is like based on my conversing with him and figured I’d include it in this post. At the time of it happening, I was thirty four years old, and now I’m thirty eight years old. I originally documented it here:
What Jesus Looks Like Plus His Personality and Traits
This is what he’s like. If I were talking with someone my age at a table and Jesus were sitting at the table with us, it would be like someone else our age sitting at the table. If I were throwing a barbecue and inviting people who lived on my street I knew, and if Jesus was one of them, I would invite him. He’s a commoner. A normal, everyday person.
He’s not the kind of person who tries to work a room. He’s very much not this kind of person. Maybe surprising as when you read through his ministry there’s constant attention drawn to him. He also has a youngish blue collar element to him.
When we conversed, the nature of it was that we were fully seeing into one another’s minds. His mind was clean as a whistle.
Based on what was discussed, I drew that he cares for all of humanity as he cares for himself. As much as he cares about himself, he cares about humanity. He appears to have a connection to all of humanity too which is where this stance would draw from. It makes sense when you think about the amount of people who feel connected to him. If he is God’s incarnation, and if God is the archetype of all intelligent existence (Ge 1:27), it additionally makes more sense.
The experience was like having the lens of 2000 years of ideas, impressions, artwork, depictions, etc. removed from before your eyes. I was taken aback by his normalcy. While in the midst of my thinking, so this is what you’re like, is when he had said “tell them.” Looking at this, it tells me he knows what’s going on here. If he was just someone who died and had no kind of spiritualism within him, he wouldn’t know what’s happening 2000 years after his life. Him saying “tell them” illustrates to me he can distinguish between the difference of people remembering him vs not remembering him. To have this knowledge he’d have to be able to see beyond his life on earth. Additionally, there are things he was aware of which God had spoken to me of, that I haven’t told anyone.
I don’t see one person being disappointed with him. From the most hardcore Jesus enthusiast who lives, sleeps, eats, and breathes Jesus, to the more mild Jesus enthusiast. I do feel this will be the case. If I didn’t, I would say nothing to avoid giving people false hope. People who’ve dedicated their lives to him will not feel their time was wasted. The person Jesus in the Gospel is the person he is and it will be this person who will return. He talks in layers where you don’t know what he’s talking about unless if you do.
When I saw him return I don’t think I’ve ever seen people as happy as the ones who recognized him. It made me feel happy to see how happy they were. I think when he returns it’s going to be a very great time. It was a very warm in sentiment environment in general.
Conclusion
When God was on the ground Jesus was not on the ground and when Jesus was on the ground God was not on the ground. What I’d consider God being on the ground looking like is the time of the Exodus and revelation at Mount Sinai. After that, God kept pulling back more and more. If Jesus was alive during the Exodus or if God were on the ground during the time of Jesus, it would be far simpler to assess the interrelation between them.
I think when they come back it’ll be unlikely to be at separate times again. At the least, they should overlap each other. When that time comes it should be far simpler to assess this.
Related Posts
A Vision of Jesus Returning to Earth
Ezekiel’s Vision of Wheels Explained: Realms and Dimensions